Oh boy. I've been wondering for a while whether to post here again or not. I wasn't going to, but I know my last post ended up on a few other subreddits and I actually stumbled across it on my main account on r/niceguys and I read all the comments there. It was rough for me to read this original post, but it was a reminder of what my own mindset, and the mindset of so many men like me, was. I decided I needed to post again for some closure. I would have posted this on r/relationships, but they don't let you update posts they have taken down (yeah the mods there actually took down the post, not me).
For those who didn't see my original post on r/relationships before it was removed, it included more detail than my last one here, so I'm going to link to a thread from r/niceguys from a few people saved the text of my relationships post in the comments. I want to take full accountability for everything, so I want to link it here:
First, I want to assure everyone that I didn't contact that girl ever again. Since I moved, I no longer see her or go anywhere by where she used to live, go to school, or work (I don't know if she still lives in the same area or goes to the same school. I have avoided getting any information about her at all). The way I acted and the way I hurt her and scared her so much still haunts me. Part of me wants to track her down and apologize, but I know from my classes that 1. that can re-victimize her all over again; 2. it would be a selfish thing to do because it would be to clear my conscience, not make her feel better. If she wants to get closure by talking to me, I'm sure she can find me somehow; and 3. I don't want to make the mistake of using an apology to make her feel manipulated to talking to me again. I learned in my classes that men do that a lot. I don't want to hurt her anymore, so I will work past the guilt while never talking to her again.
I was distraught after my last post here. I admit I came here looking for validation, not help. I had a warped sense of entitlement that led me to believe that no one would possibly disagree with me, but obviously, hundreds of people told me that I was fucked up, a predator, a stalker, and that I needed help. All of these people were right. I don't know what happened, but something clicked in me after seeing those comments (despite how combative and abusive I was in response to the comments). I checked myself into therapy in Michigan the week after I posted here. I knew something was wrong, but I was still in denial. I thought I needed help with heartbreak. I didn't recognize that I actually needed help with identifying and combatting my messed up belief systems that I used to justify stalking and victimizing that poor girl. After a few sessions, I started seeing a psychiatrist too. I got on mood stabilizers and I started to realize that something was very very wrong with the way I was acting. Something that couldn't be cured by medication. After talking it over with my therapist, I decided it would be best for me to move out of state into my Aunt's house. Within a month of me posting here, I had moved into her house.
After moving, I started the process of transferring to a new school next semester, working full time, and continued to take my medication and was transferred to a new therapist. I had a fresh idea of the issues I wanted to work on in therapy, but after a few weeks of having two therapy sessions a week, my therapist pointed out to me during a session that I was still exhibiting the same kind of obsessive behaviors over women that earned me a cease and desist letter in Michigan (though I wasn't stalking anyone at this point, I was just obsessing in my mind. Which is still bad, but I wasn't actively victimizing anyone). I realize that in addition to therapy, I needed more help. My therapist pointed me to a class run by a local agency that was designed for men that have committed violent crimes against women like domestic violence, assault, sexual assault, stalking ect. Most of the men in the class are court-ordered to go as a condition of their probation/parole, but you didn't have to be court ordered to go, so I signed up voluntarily. I attend a two-hour class session every week and have been attending for about a month now. The goal of the class is to help us recognize and change abusive/violent behaviors. I know most of you are thinking: what kind of monsters can't recognize violent behavior? People like me. People like me in the last post. I look like a normal person. I grew up in an upper-middle-class neighborhood. Monsters come in all shapes and sizes and I fooled myself by saying because I didn't "look" like an abuser or because I wasn't "like" the abusers I saw on TV, that I wasn't one. But I am. I can't take back what I've done, but I can promise myself I will never victimize anyone else again.
In conclusion, a lot had changed for me in three and a half months. I want to say that I do not blame my behavior on my mental illness or anger or the media or whatever. I made a conscious decision to stalk and terrorize another human being because I thought I had the right to dictate how others interact with me. The class is a year-long class and I have only been in it for a month, but I have already learned so much. I have learned from my group that abuse is always a conscious choice and a learned behavior. But I believe that since I've learned this behavior and it's voluntary, it's totally within my control to change it. I've also learned from my group about the importance of having a non-romantic support system, so I made some male and female friends at work that invite me over to play video games with them. Don't worry reddit, these are actual friends and not just people I am stalking or believe I am in love with (I talked about this extensively with my therapist and try to be cognizant of my obsessive tendencies).
Thank you to everyone who told it to me straight and I'm sorry for how I decided to treat everyone who was just trying to give me the advice I asked for.
tl;dr: I ceased, I desisted, and I got mental health help. Thanks to everyone.
EDIT: Wow, just wow. I didn't expect this response. I guess this is a top post of all time. I wanted to say some things for anyone who reads this in the future:
I read every single comment in r/bestoflegaladvice even though I didn't reply to many. I cried a lot while reading them. I didn't post this to be gilded or to be patted on the back. I'm not sure why I did it, but I don't think "congrats" is quite the right thing to say to me. I don't know if I deserve praise for being a normal human being with normal relationships. But thank you all for being so supportive anyway. I've had at least 10 people ask me for the name of the program I am in. The program I am in is specific to my area, so I'd rather not disclose the name. However, I encourage anyone who is concerned that they are controlling or abusive in their relationships with partners, family or friends to google "batterer intervention programs in my area." I did some research today about the class I am in and that is what these types of classes are called. They all operate a little differently based on where you live and what program you do, but we use stuff like the power and control wheel and there are steps in my program. There is no official federal program I don't think. I am not healed. I have a lot of obsessive thoughts and I have to try really really hard to have appropriate boundaries. My meds have helped with this, but it is a behavior and thought process I need to change and that cant be done with pills. I have a lot of mental health issues (duh, based on my first post) but honestly what you saw was just the tip of the iceberg. I have never had real "friends" until the ones I have now. Before Jaime, I definitely engaged in stalking behaviors with both women I had crushes on and men I wanted to be friends with. It was never as bad as it was with Jaime, but I still am sure I made people uncomfortable. I also have some self-harm behaviors I am working out. So to the person who was worried that I would use all of the good praise to say "oh I'm perfect now so I can do what I want," trust me, I know I am fucked up and I want to change. I want to have normal relationships and friendships. I want to not be known as "that creepy kid" at my new college.
Please get help if you need it. Take it from me: all people are capable of changing for the positive.
Zerocyde on September 20th, 2017 at 21:49 UTC »
Hmmm. I've felt this way before. I need to watch that.
mutatus on September 20th, 2017 at 19:58 UTC »
This was really interesting to read. I read his previous posts, and I couldn't see how he thought that was normal behavior. He evidently learned a lot from his classes and therapy. I don't think I've ever seen this kind of situation from the before and after perspective of the stalker. It's enlightening for sure.
I wonder how much better off we would be as a society if we all had therapy sessions just to maintain mental health instead of when one's mental health has reached a boiling point.
Isaythree on September 20th, 2017 at 19:32 UTC »
I wonder what we could do as a society to make this kind of self discovery and willingness to seek help more prevalent? It's only the people who truly want help who can be helped.
Edit: To everyone who took time out of their day to answer this and foster a serious discussion on the issue, thank you. I would like to think this kind of discourse on its own helps a great deal.