The Daily Populous Wednesday December 10th, 2025 morning edition
Authored by bbc.com and submitted by Nordic-Bear

Ukraine prepares new peace plan as Zelensky rules out giving up land

19 hours ago Share Save Dearbail Jordan BBC News Share Save

Reuters While peace talks continue, so does fighting along the front line in eastern Ukraine

Ukraine is preparing to present a revised peace plan to the White House, as it seeks to avoid making territorial concessions to Russia. Kyiv is set to propose alternatives after President Volodymyr Zelensky again ruled out surrendering land, saying he had "no right" to do so under Ukrainian or international law. He made the comments after meeting European and Nato leaders on Monday, part of a push to deter the US from backing a peace deal which includes major concessions for Ukraine, and which allies fear would leave it vulnerable to a future invasion. The Ukrainian president told a news conference his team could send a new proposal to the Americans as soon as Tuesday, AFP news agency reported.

Zelensky's ongoing diplomatic tour of Europe follows intensive talks between US and Ukrainian negotiators over the weekend which failed to produce a deal to which Kyiv could agree. On Sunday, Trump indicated that he viewed Zelensky as the main obstacle to securing a peace deal, something he has made a key foreign policy goal and which the president claimed he would be able to achieve rapidly during the 2024 presidential election campaign. He told reporters that Russia was "fine" with the peace plan outlined to both sides by the US, but that he was a "little disappointed that Zelensky hasn't read it". Almost simultaneously, Zelensky said he was waiting to briefed by his chief negotiator Rustem Umerov following three days of discussions with his US counterparts in Miami. "Some issues can only be discussed in person," said Zelensky, ahead of a meeting in London attended by UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Friedrich Merz. The summit was widely viewed as a show of support for Ukraine as it seeks to resist White House pressure. Trump called Europe's leaders "weak" in an interview with Politico published on Tuesday. On whether Europe could help end Russia's war with Ukraine, the US president said: "They talk, but they don't produce, and the war just keeps going on and on." No 10 said there had been an agreement that the US-led talks represented a "critical moment" to ramp up support for Ukraine, and repeated calls for a "just and lasting peace... which includes robust security guarantees". But it is not yet clear what form that would take. European leaders walk tightrope between backing Ukraine and keeping US on board

While the UK and France have proposed deploying international troops in Ukraine, several key defence players in Europe, including Germany and Italy, have expressed scepticism about that idea. It is also not clear to what extent the US would be willing to underpin any future defence arrangements for Ukraine. Following talks in London, Zelensky flew to Brussels to meet Nato chief Mark Rutte and EU chief Ursula von der Leyen, and will meet Prime Minister Georgia Meloni in Italy on Tuesday. On the subject of surrendering land, Zelensky said: "Russia is insisting that we give up territories, but we don't want to cede anything." He continued: "We have no legal right to do so, under Ukrainian law, our constitution and international law. And we don't have any moral right either." Zelensky has long maintained that any changes to Ukraine's borders would need to be authorised by a public referendum. On Tuesday, Russia's chief of general staff, Valery Gerasimov, said the country's forces were advancing along Ukraine's front line and were targeting Myrnohrad, close to the strategically important city of Pokrovsk. Russia claims to have captured Pokrovsk, which would nudge Putin closer to taking full control of Ukraine's Donbas, made up of the neighbouring regions of Donetsk and Luhansk. Ukraine has denied this, and a command centre showed the BBC live video of Ukrainian soldiers still fighting in the city during a recent visit. Ukrainians raise flag to show BBC the fight goes on in city claimed by Russia

nosecohn on December 10th, 2025 at 05:15 UTC »

While I agree the prospects for peace are poor, I think there are a few factors arguing against parity:

Manpower. Ukraine is a much smaller country, and because it's a democracy, recruitment is more difficult than in Russia. The front line isn't at a standstill. Russia is steadily gaining ground, though the progress is extremely slow and at a high cost. Again, because the Russian regime is authoritarian, this is enough to sustain the campaign. They can keep throwing men and resources at it while claiming to make progress, not worrying too much about public backlash. Air defense. Domestic and European weapons already account for a large portion of Ukraine's materiel and that is continuing to grow, but they rely on the US for some air defense munitions, most notably Patriot interceptors, and they are in short supply. Russia's production of the munitions that require interception remains high. Intelligence. The Europeans don't have a substitute for the US spy satellite network. If the US decides to stop sharing information, it puts Ukraine in greater jeopardy. Alliances. Ukraine is struggling to maintain its foreign support. The trials with the Trump administration are obvious, but there is growing backlash to continued support in Europe as well. Meanwhile, Russia is expanding its foreign support beyond China, Iran and North Korea, most notably with India, which already buys a lot of Russian oil and has recently agreed to send a bunch of people to help Russian factories (which are mostly on a war footing) fill their labor requirements. This was an "own goal" by the Trump administration, but it's done now.

What's remarkable to me, though, is that even with all those advantages, Russia could easily be motivated towards peace if Ukraine were given a level of support that would cost its Western allies relatively little compared to their budgets. Those allies just aren't sufficiently motivated any longer. The opportunity to capitalize on Russia's mistaken invasion was in the first year. Now, the task is more difficult, mostly due to the fact that Ukraine's allies are democratic, not authoritarian.

Bullboah on December 9th, 2025 at 18:06 UTC »

1). I wouldn’t say the frontline is at a standstill. Russia has been gaining ground consistently for a while now. If you look at the map they aren’t taking huge %’s of Ukraine, but it shows that Ukrainians aren’t holding the line and are being pushed back (in certain spots).

2). In terms of holding out, Russia has a lot more manpower to keep throwing away than Ukraine. Ukraine has the international support advantage though, which also matters.

3.). IMO there is a lot of fog of war and it’s very difficult to get a real sense of much beyond the above.

4). I do agree in general that peace seems unlikely in the near future.

Nordic-Bear on December 9th, 2025 at 15:20 UTC »

Ah yeah, why I posted this in the first place: Please prove me wrong, so I can reduce my blindspots.