The Daily Populous Thursday September 18th, 2025 morning edition
Authored by bbc.com and submitted by SensualSalami

I have no relationship with Trump, Brazil's President Lula tells BBC

7 hours ago Share Save Ione Wells South America correspondent in Brasília and Leandro Prazeres BBC News Brasil Share Save

Watch: Brazil's Lula talks Trump, US tariffs and oil in BBC interview

Brazil's President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva has told the BBC in an exclusive interview that he has "no relationship" with US President Donald Trump. Lula has frequently criticised Trump, but this is the clearest signal yet that he thinks communication between him and his US counterpart is now broken. Even though the US has a trade surplus with Brazil, Donald Trump imposed 50% tariffs on Brazilian goods in July, citing the trial on coup charges of Brazil's right-wing former president Jair Bolsonaro as a trigger. Lula described the tariffs as "eminently political" and said US consumers would be facing higher prices for Brazilian goods as a result.

The tariffs imposed by Trump have hit Brazilian exports to the US, like coffee and beef, which Lula said would become more expensive: "The American people will pay for the mistakes President Trump is incurring in his relationship with Brazil." The two leaders have never spoken directly to each other. When pushed on why he had not just tried to pick up the phone or form a relationship, President Lula said: "I never tried that call because he never wanted to have a conversation." Trump has previously said that Lula can "call him anytime." But Lula insisted that members of the Trump Administration "do not want to talk". He told the BBC that he had found out about the US tariffs from Brazilian newspapers. Referring to Trump, he said that the US president "didn't communicate in a civilised manner. He just published them [the tariffs] on his portal - on social media." When asked how he would describe his relationship with his US counterpart he simply said: "There's no relationship."

'He's not emperor of the world!'

Lula said that his poor relations with the US leader were the exception, listing how he had built relationships with former US presidents, UK prime ministers, the EU, China, Ukraine, Venezuela and "all the countries in the world". The Brazilian president attended the World War Two anniversary celebrations in Russia this year and has not cut ties with President Putin. Asked who he had a better relationship with - Trump or Putin - he defended his ties to the latter, saying they had formed them when they had both been presidents "in previous times". "I don't have a relationship with Trump because when Trump was elected the first time, I wasn't president. His relationship is with Bolsonaro, not Brazil," Lula responded. He also said that if he passed Trump at next week's United Nations General assembly he would "greet him because I am a civilised citizen", but added that Trump may be "president of the United States, [but] he's not emperor of the world!". When approached for comment on Lula's criticism of Trump, a White House spokesperson referred the BBC to the US president's past public comments on Brazil.

Lula said if the 6 January 2021 Capitol riot had happened in Brazil rather than in the US, Trump would have been put on trial

Lula also spoke about his predecessor in office, Jair Bolsonaro, who was convicted last week. A 4-1 majority of justices on Brazil's Supreme Court found the ex-president guilty of plotting a coup after losing the election to Lula and sentenced him to 27 years in prison. Lula told the BBC that Bolsonaro and his co-conspirators had "hurt the country, attempted a coup, and plotted my death". Referring to the appeals Bolsonaro's lawyers said they would lodge, Lula said that he hoped that Bolsonaro would continue "to present his defence" but that "for now he is guilty". He also criticised Trump for "inventing untruths" by claiming Bolsonaro was being persecuted and denouncing what the US leader said was a lack of democracy in Brazil. Lula also told the BBC that if the 6 January 2021 Capitol riot had happened in Brazil rather than in the US, Trump would have been put on trial.

In the wide-ranging BBC interview, he also advocated for reform of the United Nations. He criticised the fact that five countries - the permanent members of the UN Security Council - have the power to veto decisions and argued that this tilted the balance in favour of those who won World War Two, excluding nations representing billions of people like Brazil, Germany, India, Japan, as well as African countries. The result, he said, was that the UN didn't "have the strength to solve conflicts" and the five permanent members made "unilateral" decisions about going to war.

Getty Images Lula travelled to Moscow for World War Two victory celebrations in May

He defended his continued alliances with Russia and China – two nations where unfair elections and human rights abuses have been documented – while calling for a more "democratic" UN. Pressed on Brazil's continuing purchases of Russian oil while Russia wages war in Ukraine, he said Brazil was one of the first countries to condemn Russia's occupation of Ukraine and that "Brazil doesn't finance Russia, we buy oil from Russia because we need to buy oil just like China, India, the UK or the US needs to buy oil". He said that if the UN was "functioning" then neither the Ukraine war nor the Gaza war - which he described as "not a war" but a "genocide" - would have happened.

Ok_Position1959 on September 17th, 2025 at 22:47 UTC »

It’s really interesting to come to the realization that Brazil actually values its law and order and institutions more than the US. A former president plots a coup? They put him on trial and sentence him to 27 years. A US president who loses and incites a violent insurrection? Nothing at all.

steve_ample on September 17th, 2025 at 22:22 UTC »

"But I am a compassionate man, a family man. I would love dearly to have his son Eduardo to come meet his beloved father back in his country of birth. I will even grant an executive dispensation to make sure they are together and close in Brasil - perhaps even in the cell right beside or opposite the father's. As a personal favor."

SensualSalami on September 17th, 2025 at 22:13 UTC »

"I don't have a relationship with Trump because when Trump was elected the first time, I wasn't president. His relationship is with Bolsonaro, not Brazil," Lula responded.

He also said that if he passed Trump at next week's United Nations General assembly he would "greet him because I am a civilised citizen", but added that Trump may be "president of the United States, [but] he's not emperor of the world!".