There is some talk here that Thomas Lane, the lowest ranking officer, twice questioned Chauvin. The concensus being that it is very difficult for a 1st year rookie to challenge a twenty year veteran in any industry. Thus making him just a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This looks to me to be a similar problem that airline industry had to deal with in the 1970's
"In 1977, two Boeing 747s crashed in the Canary Islands – the deadliest accident in history with 583 fatalities – because the captain of one of the jets ignored warnings that he didn’t have clearance for takeoff."
"Then In 1978, A United Airlines jet crashed in Portland, Oregon, killing 10 people because the co-pilot and flight engineer didn’t speak up. The captain had ignored the flight engineer’s warnings that the plane didn’t have enough fuel to land safely. As the tanks ran dry, the junior crew members said nothing."
The airlines had to change the cockpit culture so that the junior pilots could challenge the senior pilots and the senior pilots would listen to them.
My suggestion is that one of the things we need to change is the "Squad Car Culture" of our police departments in the same way the airline industry changed the cockpit culture.
I’m an officer with roughly the same amount of experience as Lane, this is a throwaway for obvious reasons. George Floyd was murdered by these officers, and it could’ve been prevented. These officers need to see the light of justice. This is not me defending the officers actions, but trying to provide some insight, particularly with Lane.
I read that Lane spoke up twice to Chauvin, and Chauvin responded in a manner that disregarded Lane. The fact that Lane spoke up to a senior officer with two decades of experience is astonishing to me. The culture of a police department is hierarchy based, and newer officers work under not only the impression that the senior officer is right, but that the senior officer is always looking out for everybody and their best interests when that is often not the case.
From what I’ve read Lane was out of field training for three days. As such I imagine that there’s a good chance he was working a brand new shift, with officers that are brand new to him, working an area that he’s unfamiliar with. It’s a terrifying experience. I still remember being on my first week out of field training, I felt like a new kid in a new school, and I was scared.
During use of force scenarios, Ive personally seen many officers get tunnel vision and lose view of the situation as a whole. The fact Lane managed to avoid that tunnel vision, recognize the force was excessive, and speak up to a senior officer in a use of force scenario under these circumstances should be recognized. Was it too little? Absolutely. If more direct action was taken could the murder of Floyd have been prevented? Once again, absolutely. But Lane did more than what most seniors officers would’ve done, and he was still a rookie.
This situation, and countless others that preceded it, could have been avoided. Action needs to be taken in the future to prevent ANYTHING like this happening again. I believe the issues comes down the culture of police work, and a paradigm shift is needed. The job changes people who aren’t conscious of it. It needs to be recognized and addressed. I’ve heard officers say the goal of this job is to arrest people, and that is simply not true. The goal should always be to help the situation however best one can in the moment. The mindset of getting as many arrests as possible leads to unnecessary aggression, and even worse is it’s often celebrated. This career field needs people who are outraged by this, and are empathetic and want to make a positive change. It needs people who will not lose sight of that goal.
theblackfool on June 4th, 2020 at 02:11 UTC »
Genuine question, how do they find jurors for a case this high profile?
Grubworm65 on June 4th, 2020 at 04:51 UTC »
May I offer a suggestion......
There is some talk here that Thomas Lane, the lowest ranking officer, twice questioned Chauvin. The concensus being that it is very difficult for a 1st year rookie to challenge a twenty year veteran in any industry. Thus making him just a guy in the wrong place at the wrong time.
This looks to me to be a similar problem that airline industry had to deal with in the 1970's
https://mynorthwest.com/5190/cockpit-culture-boeing-trains-pilots-to-challenge-each-other/
"In 1977, two Boeing 747s crashed in the Canary Islands – the deadliest accident in history with 583 fatalities – because the captain of one of the jets ignored warnings that he didn’t have clearance for takeoff."
"Then In 1978, A United Airlines jet crashed in Portland, Oregon, killing 10 people because the co-pilot and flight engineer didn’t speak up. The captain had ignored the flight engineer’s warnings that the plane didn’t have enough fuel to land safely. As the tanks ran dry, the junior crew members said nothing."
The airlines had to change the cockpit culture so that the junior pilots could challenge the senior pilots and the senior pilots would listen to them.
My suggestion is that one of the things we need to change is the "Squad Car Culture" of our police departments in the same way the airline industry changed the cockpit culture.
c576675 on June 4th, 2020 at 04:55 UTC »
I’m an officer with roughly the same amount of experience as Lane, this is a throwaway for obvious reasons. George Floyd was murdered by these officers, and it could’ve been prevented. These officers need to see the light of justice. This is not me defending the officers actions, but trying to provide some insight, particularly with Lane.
I read that Lane spoke up twice to Chauvin, and Chauvin responded in a manner that disregarded Lane. The fact that Lane spoke up to a senior officer with two decades of experience is astonishing to me. The culture of a police department is hierarchy based, and newer officers work under not only the impression that the senior officer is right, but that the senior officer is always looking out for everybody and their best interests when that is often not the case.
From what I’ve read Lane was out of field training for three days. As such I imagine that there’s a good chance he was working a brand new shift, with officers that are brand new to him, working an area that he’s unfamiliar with. It’s a terrifying experience. I still remember being on my first week out of field training, I felt like a new kid in a new school, and I was scared.
During use of force scenarios, Ive personally seen many officers get tunnel vision and lose view of the situation as a whole. The fact Lane managed to avoid that tunnel vision, recognize the force was excessive, and speak up to a senior officer in a use of force scenario under these circumstances should be recognized. Was it too little? Absolutely. If more direct action was taken could the murder of Floyd have been prevented? Once again, absolutely. But Lane did more than what most seniors officers would’ve done, and he was still a rookie.
This situation, and countless others that preceded it, could have been avoided. Action needs to be taken in the future to prevent ANYTHING like this happening again. I believe the issues comes down the culture of police work, and a paradigm shift is needed. The job changes people who aren’t conscious of it. It needs to be recognized and addressed. I’ve heard officers say the goal of this job is to arrest people, and that is simply not true. The goal should always be to help the situation however best one can in the moment. The mindset of getting as many arrests as possible leads to unnecessary aggression, and even worse is it’s often celebrated. This career field needs people who are outraged by this, and are empathetic and want to make a positive change. It needs people who will not lose sight of that goal.