You know what, I've seen Joseph defended a bunch on this subreddit. So for posterity's sake, here's every single line Joseph has in the show. He's only in two episodes, one at the start and one at the end of season 4.
S4E2: The Old Sugarman Place
Well, the photographer's here. Where is Crackerjack? He was aware that we're posing for a family photo portrait. I've got to ankle back to Indianapolis.
(Honey asks whether he can stay longer)
Oh, that would be a dream, but who else but I will make sure the numbers add up and compliment my secretary on her tight sweaters?
(Crackerjack arrives)
All right, Crackerjack, time's a-tickin'. We need to take this portrait before you and I both take a powder. Sally, why don't you get yourself some freezy pops, - and keep the change.
(Crackerjack and Honey play the piano)
Not now, you two.
(they finish)
All right. Believe it or not, time's arrow neither stands still nor reverses. It merely marches forward.
(Honey makes a joke)
Honey Sugarman, how did such a sweet face end up with such a smart mouth?
(I have half a mind...)
Well, that half you can keep.
(Later on, Beatrice is sad to leave the summer house)
Well, it'll always be here, just like polio and blackface.
(Later again, Sugar is looking for Crackerjack's blanket, after his death)
Darling, we've been over this. He doesn't need his blanket... He's gone, honey. Even Blinky couldn't have stopped that Nazi's bullet... That's just war, honey.
(Honey blames herself)
Honey, no. If anyone's to blame, it's the Jews for peeving off Hitler so bad... Come on, let's head home. It's only ghosts here in the winter.
(Honey mentions that this is the first time they'll be in the summer house without Crackerjack)
Yes, I suppose that's true... But, as they say, time's arrow marches forward. You hear that, honey? Time's arrow marches.
(Honey gets clearly emotional after playing some keys on the piano)
Ohh Well, I'd love to stay, but I must be going. As a modern American man I am woefully unprepared to manage a woman's emotions. I was never taught, and I will not learn. Take care, you two.
(Honey and Beatrice are back in the house after crashing the car)
What were you thinking, hoofing around the dance floor like a motorized freckle? - Did you snap your cap? ... That's before mentioning poor Beatrice. You aiming to get her killed as well? She's all we got.
(Honey says 'I don't know what's wrong with me')
How am I supposed to sell sugar and keep my secretary's self-esteem afloat when you're having honest-to-goodness fits of hysteria?
(Beatrice ask is her mother alright)
She is now. She just let her womanly emotions get the better of her, that's all. Nothing a little operation couldn't fix... What's broken in the heart can never be repaired, but the brain, well, we have all sorts of science for the brain. She's a brand new woman now, and she'd like to meet you very much.
S4E11: Time's Arrow
(Beatrice is in bed, at home)
Beatrice, stop reading and put on your uniform... I don't care if you're scared of Clemelia Bloodsworth and her gaggle, you have to go to school. Now stop making books your friends. Reading does nothing for young women but build their brains, taking valuable resources away from their breasts and hips... Uniform, now!
(Beatrice collapses)
Oh, my, you're hot. Dear Lord!
(Talking to Honey in the hallway)
Now listen here, it's a mother's duty to keep her children alive and you are continually failing! How could you not have known she has scarlet fever? Say something, damn it! What has become of you? I swear if I'd known this is how you'd behave once we severed the connections to your prefrontal cortex, I'd hardly have bothered.
(Beatrice asks is she going to die)
Yes, darling?... Well, eventually yes, but this illness is but a hiccup in what will be a long and happy life, - I promise... In fact, some good may yet come of this. Doctor says your throat is nearly swollen shut. So perhaps you'll finally lose some of that weight that's given you such troubles. Won't that be nice?
(time flashes forward to 1963. Beatrice is preparing for her debutant ball)
Beatrice, you're looking well, which is just fine, because your debutante party is vitally important.
(Beatrice asks will it end poverty etc.)
Yes! Or rather, it will end you worrying about that nonsense because it will land you a husband... Yes well your chaperone, Corbin Creamerman, is a fine young man.
(Beatrice and Joseph are talking after the dance)
Corbin's father, Mort Creamerman, is founder of Creamerman's Creamy Cream-based Commodities... Think of all the free iced cream you could, uh, serve to other people... Well, I suppose I do have a few ideas of how a Sugarman/Creamerman alliance might be advantageous... For example, imagine a television advertisement with a fun jingle. Have your morning coffee or tea With Sugarman and Creamerman But save some for these fellas And then it's Mort and me, and we're holding up our products with big smiles from across a very ordinary looking kitchen table... You know, I sent you to Barnard to get your MRS from a fine upstanding Columbia man, but instead of a bachelor you returned home with a bachelor's degree and a mouth full of sass. What a waste!
(two weeks after the dance)
I have wonderful news... Corbin Creamerman has come to call. He'd like to take you for a Sunday stroll.
(Beatrice isn't interested in Corbin)
I don't give a damn where your interests lie! After the disappearing act you pulled at your own party, you're lucky I don't fill a jar with jellied beans and marry you off to the man who can closest estimate the amount... Corbin Creamerman is willing to give you a second chance, he is downstairs waiting, and you will be civil to him.
(Much later, flashback to when Beatrice had scarlet fever. Beatrice doesn't want them to burn her possessions)
Beatrice, remember what we say about crying?... Crying is stupid... But, darling, they have to. Your sickness has infected everything. It all must be destroyed for your own good... Yes. Especially your baby. Whoop! See, doesn't that feel better?... Come on now, be strong. You can't let your womanly emotions consume you. You don't wanna end up like your mother now, do you?... I promise. One day this will all be a pleasant memory.
Even if you ignore the anti-semitism, the cheating, the sexism, the body-shaming, etc. and dismiss them as jokes - the core of Joseph's character is that he provides pretty much zero emotional support to his family. The lobotomy is just a good symbol of this - he's willing to provide loads of money to fix problems, but isn't willing at all to attempt to talk things through and help his family in times of emotional crisis.
People defending Joseph I think seem to miss the whole point of his part in the show and his relationship with his wife and daughter. Just like with Honey, Joseph does provide on a material level for Beatrice - she grew up in a fancy house, with a summer home, got to go to college, had a maid, never had to worry for anything really. But he clearly doesn't respect her as a person, doesn't respect her emotions or her opinions, and constantly puts her down and takes actions without any regard to her feelings. And because he provides on a monetery level, he doesn't even consider that providing emotional support is one of his roles as a parent.
Doesn't that remind you of someone? Beatrice learnt it from somewhere.
tinglingoxbow on October 14th, 2018 at 09:56 UTC »
I don't understand how people defend his actions. Literally Almost every single line he says in the show is asshole-ish.
tinglingoxbow on October 14th, 2018 at 11:24 UTC »
You know what, I've seen Joseph defended a bunch on this subreddit. So for posterity's sake, here's every single line Joseph has in the show. He's only in two episodes, one at the start and one at the end of season 4.
S4E2: The Old Sugarman Place
(Honey asks whether he can stay longer)
(Crackerjack arrives)
(Crackerjack and Honey play the piano)
(they finish)
(Honey makes a joke)
(I have half a mind...)
(Later on, Beatrice is sad to leave the summer house)
(Later again, Sugar is looking for Crackerjack's blanket, after his death)
(Honey blames herself)
(Honey mentions that this is the first time they'll be in the summer house without Crackerjack)
(Honey gets clearly emotional after playing some keys on the piano)
(Honey and Beatrice are back in the house after crashing the car)
(Honey says 'I don't know what's wrong with me')
(Beatrice ask is her mother alright)
S4E11: Time's Arrow
(Beatrice is in bed, at home)
(Beatrice collapses)
(Talking to Honey in the hallway)
(Beatrice asks is she going to die)
(time flashes forward to 1963. Beatrice is preparing for her debutant ball)
(Beatrice asks will it end poverty etc.)
(Beatrice and Joseph are talking after the dance)
(two weeks after the dance)
(Beatrice isn't interested in Corbin)
(Much later, flashback to when Beatrice had scarlet fever. Beatrice doesn't want them to burn her possessions)
Even if you ignore the anti-semitism, the cheating, the sexism, the body-shaming, etc. and dismiss them as jokes - the core of Joseph's character is that he provides pretty much zero emotional support to his family. The lobotomy is just a good symbol of this - he's willing to provide loads of money to fix problems, but isn't willing at all to attempt to talk things through and help his family in times of emotional crisis.
People defending Joseph I think seem to miss the whole point of his part in the show and his relationship with his wife and daughter. Just like with Honey, Joseph does provide on a material level for Beatrice - she grew up in a fancy house, with a summer home, got to go to college, had a maid, never had to worry for anything really. But he clearly doesn't respect her as a person, doesn't respect her emotions or her opinions, and constantly puts her down and takes actions without any regard to her feelings. And because he provides on a monetery level, he doesn't even consider that providing emotional support is one of his roles as a parent.
Doesn't that remind you of someone? Beatrice learnt it from somewhere.
snarpsta on October 14th, 2018 at 11:25 UTC »
Do people actually defend him? I haven't heard this argument before